Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. Penetrations do just little damage. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? Germany has some of the best CAS, the best SPAA, the best light tanks, and just the best overall line up at 6.7 yet they are generally performing in the range or sometimes below that of worse nations at the same BR despite facing the same threats such as France, Italy, and Japan. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. Or a Jagdtiger? More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". Armor. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. Been consistent honestly. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. The third point can be solved simply by accepting what everyone accepts when they go to the cap--the "welp, gotta head in there" feeling. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. This is a battle of patience and cunning. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. If you liked it, feel free to sub. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. Hardly an advantage. If the team melts, the team melts. You can penetrate e.g. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Hard cover will always be superior to armor in WT. Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. 1. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. 4. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. And im asking how your angling it. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. Incorrect in so many levels. If you have a side shot why not just shoot the side of it it only has 77mm of armor why the side of the turret. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. You can go through things but often times you die. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. 5. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. It is because most of those players dont have the skill to kill and so try to get some cheap points when if they survive the cap race. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. Seems many new players fell to this trap. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. 2. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. A dreaded sight for aircraft and ground vehicles alike, the F-4F Phantom II provides a strong air superiority fighter and supremely potent ground attacker to German pilots. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. Theres no reason why being put this tank agains opponents which pens it easy and having slow rate of fire to fight them. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. #15. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. Then yes, M18 would be toast. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made during the cold war and after) in battles? You cant carry against so many players. Now, lets address the imagined problems of Germany so that the real ones can be identified and addressed! I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. What is the Caernarvon? Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. 1. jagdtiger having stupidly high Br at 7.3 arcade. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. Done. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. I tested you 50 cal theory and it can be done but it takes so many rounds and reloads its not an arguing point at all. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. They still exist just can't be unlocked by new players anymore. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be. The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). Depends on the BR really. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. Nope you leave them to their own meansor use them as bait if you want to be a jerk about it. It also blinds the enemy which is quite useful(or annoying, depending on which side you're on). There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. SIKE German mains am I right? Which also has bombs as well. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Sohow exactly do I do that? And here comes the issue with uptiers. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. Same procedure as with Panthers. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. If you do spot him racing between the hills you will have difficulties to shoot him because the time window where he is the ope is rather short. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. Mobility is simply king in this game. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. Let me repeat that. I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. Making it for the M18 much easier to make assumptions about the position of the Panther than vice versa. . Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. (Saint Nicholas Bible, CIVIC Worship The Good Book, & Queen Elizabeth II Bible are the same book with 3 different Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? I am obviously not among the greatest pilots out there but I am decent from what I found on thunderskill and I have to say this is plain wrong. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from.
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