What's the real deal here? A joint account is not meant to be used to avoid probate so the courts have cracked down on it.In my view, given all of what I've said here, no, you'd never get them to pay the probate fee. Can the power of attorney for his will assume control of our mothers estate? Do I have to apply to Alberta Surrogate Court to have the will proven as valid before applying for probate? She had no idea if I was a TD customer or not. I (probate granted estate trustee with a Will, and I am also the residuary beneficiary) opened 2 estate accounts for my mother's estate last year. Can it be deposited into this account. I have already paid the probate fee on the lesser amount. I have been sent a cheque as final payment for caregiving services. You tell them. The bank now says I have to wait 6 months before disbursing to beneficiaries. This bit about the banks not allowing executors to open an estate account until probate has been granted is relatively new, and only works for the bank. My mother passed, without a will. One employee actually told the two executors to deposit into the account my mother in law held joint with the one vs opening a new one. She might have received wrong advice from a lawyer or from a banker. Apparently, they were under no such obligation, in fact the manager of one bank stated, that since my brother was POA, he could do what ever he wanted with my mother's money, and the first thing he did was put a couple thousand towards a loan payment (don't know to which bank - but it does mean they benefited). Does anyone know if they are obligated to move assets over to the estate account, before the probated will is received? My father passed Nov 18 2016; he was widowed and there are 3 beneficiaries named in the will. Estate Planning. It clearly names me as the Estate Trustee. Since I am sole beneficiary and will receive the cheques to his estate, how do I set up the estate bank account. Thx. In her will, all three adult children are both equal executors and beneficiaries. Is this a common practice? By the way, I checked out your site and it's really unique and interesting.Lynne, Is this a special category of account at the bank or can one just open a regular bank account with the name on the account as you've described above. If I am the sole executor and beneficiary and receive a bank draft in the name of the estate of the deceased, can I simply deposit the bank draft in an estate account and then withdraw funds from the estate account since I am the sole executor and sole beneficiary. TD bank estate account has not been closed and balance on the account has been in the estate account for seven years. We have had nothing but problems with this bank and I was advised by our attorneys to open an account with my own bank who I was familiar with. That's why they're dragging their feet. Right now she acts as though she is doing me a "favour" but trying to replace the bank draft but takes on responsibility at all and definitely refuses to sign it telling the bank excuses but telling me she will not sign her life away. A cheque was released to to each person on title for a project (including my grandmother whom they knew was deceased) . There will be no other transactions. Now, at the 11th hour, she wants to be compensated for administering the estate, which we both did, but she feels she is entitled to more than me and I disagree. When the court appointed me as the administrator, her bank account changed from Jane Doe to Estate of Jane Doe. Ever.The executor must wait along with everyone else for the estate to be wound up to get his or her inheritance.Either you are mistaken about the financial obligations of an executor, or I'm reading your question incorrectly. My elderly (74) sister has made 2 partial distributions (3 siblings equal parts) and left enough for the CRA in the Estate account (says she has applied for a certificate). Keep in mind though that when you present your accounting to the beneficiaries at the end of the estate, your expenses must show up there. Thanks Lynne! I have seen copies of the draft and the amount in the Estate account that was left in March, so I know this is the last big payment left. It's just an expense and a bother if it's not needed. My sister was POA for mom. My lawyer has said the same thing. I am paying their benefits to the court.Thank you for any help and advice. Will I need to open an Estate Account? I am the executor to my deceased elder sister's estate. What if my sister didn't put my name (co-executor) n the account? Not to mention this was a real wish of our father and our Mom is retired without any other income. The lawyer suggested it might be more efficient to use the law firm's trust accounts. In particular, you should not have named yourself because someone working under a POA is not allowed to benefit from the position of POA (other than collecting a wage for the work, if allowed). I am the executor of my mom's estate. You'll have to make sure the whole story is told to the court in your application for probate. My husband is the executor of his fathers account. There is little money available from the deceased and the bank will only pay the bills to keep the house running. Since I haven't heard from the bank I have taken the money she had in there and put it in a separate account at my bank and it will sit in there until everything is done. Is there any reason why my sister would not be able to transfer to me half of the shares and cash in the investment account at this time? I could look at them online, print transaction records, and transfer funds in or out if necessary or as required. Once the letter of probate has been granted and presented to the bank where the estate account has been set up, does the bank have any further right to "approve" payments coming out of the estate account. Will I need to go to a bank and set up an estate account and can I do this without needing probate? The RSP is not in the estate if it names beneficiaries. The lawyer handling his mother's estate wants to write the cheque to my name with Executor of the Estate of (my husbands name). Can she claim the whole monthly amount for the past two years on our moms estate who recently passed with severe dementia? In order for that to happen, there has to be a will that appoints you. The bank will simply remove the parent's name from the account upon receiving proof of death, leaving the surviving account holder with full access to and legal ownership of the account. Neither happened. Be cautious about disbursing funds until you have 100% control of the situation and know for sure what's out there.LynneLynne, Hi LynneMy mom passed away about a year ago, my sister and brother and I were all executors. Try to take the wishes of the beneficiaries into consideration if you can. I live in the USA, my son lived in Canada and passed this year. What would be the purpose of such a designation if people could just ignore them?I'm not an accountant, but my understanding is that the RRSP will be fully taxable when it is paid into the estate. Note that the credit union confirmed probate isnt required as the total amount of the estate is around 10,000.Thank you. You should not have listed anyone but her estate as the beneficiary of that contract. I want to ask my question to the bank but can I get your consent first? If it is only bank policy and not law, however, I am going to protest this, as my brother was laid off a while back and could really use his share of the funds now. You're in charge of the account, not them. The 2nd was sent in September from a different lawyer and got "lost in the mail", it never occurred to me with the pandemic and my work to ask to pick it up, I also didn't clue in that she had changed lawyers for the 3rd time without telling me. My uncle passed away and put my cousin and I as executor's. You must pay all debts (and it sounds as if you have done so) and taxes, then whatever is left must be divided among the beneficiaries.Lynne. Take the will, a copy of the death certificate (or funeral director's statement) and your I.D. Do I have any rights? In fact, it's standard. Dear Lynne, I live in Ontario. My question is this cheque can ONLY be deposited into the estate account( we still have one set up) and not a personal account correct?Thank you so much. She is also the executor, which means that ultimately she is the one who will take responsibility for the payment of the funds.So, what is their risk? The problem we now have is that while we can see the account online, we are not able to make any payments from it for utilities and rent prior to moving her stuff out of the apartment. Also because the will has not been probated and I am not willing to go through the paper work and trouble to do so what are my options for closing this account next year. Neither of those situations is ideal, but you can only work with the situation you're in.Lynne. is, however I am just doing it myself to save money as everything was straight forward and I am paying all bills as they come in. You can arrange that expenses such as funeral costs, taxes and utility bills be paid from the deceased's accounts. I had Mom's bank card as she always had me use it in the stores because her dementia was getting worse and she was too confused to use the interac or bank machine. He had all the necessary documents but I guess in their mind the estate was not worth their time. This assumes there is enough in the account, of course. If you are the executor, it's up to you to decide whether you want to take the personal risk of releasing money. An Estate account is a different kind of account - it is a new account opened after someone has passed away, into which the Executor deposits the deceased person's money, from which the Executor pays the deceased person's debts and bills, and from which the Executor ultimately distributes funds to . Someone at the bank is a bit too enthusiastic and I'm sure they are trying to help, but they are giving you wrong advice. Unlimited debit transactions 3, Interac e-Transfer transactions, and Scotia International Money Transfers . Do you mind if I place your article on my blog and reference your site to it?Cheers,Larosabelle, Hi Larosabelle,Thanks! I suspect what they are talking about is that certain beneficiaries, such as spouses, usually have 6 months to make a claim against an estate, so executors usually wait out that time period. Have you taken the estate paperwork to the bank with the cheque? All from my laptop. I want to pay his bills first and then divide up whats left when I know there are no more debts to pay. Her girlfriend/partner of 30 years passed away. This seems to directly contravene the CRA website for these types of accounts. She had one (nonjoint) bank account, a TFSA which had some money in it. I went into the bank again and asked to see her but she was in a meeting so another representative took my name and number. All the estate assets have since been liquidated and deposited to the CIBC estate account, and now CIBC has locked the funds and is refusing to distribute the funds until such time as each and every beneficiary appears at a branch of CIBC, identifies themselves with the previously provided ID's and signs the account application. Will i need a letter of administration to open an estate account or will my bank let me sign a letter of indemnity? Death benefits are administered by the federal government. If so, it will pose quite a hardship on her as a student. No spouse. Does this trust belong to my daughter, or is it part of the estate, and therefore to be caught up in limbo during the probate? In the next breath the employee told the other executor, the old account is now yours and you can take the Money and run. I have 2 brothers and we were all named beneficiaries. Upon her death, the money would avoid probate and be distributed. In my view, you are doing exactly what is supposed to happen - even though the accounts are in joint names, you are treating the accounts as assets of the estate. There is no property, only accounts/investments. At least, that's their point of view. The only joint wills I've ever heard of are the kind where there is only one document shared between two people, and those haven't been done for about 50 years in most of Canada. As the executor I am just starting the estate work. No, you will not be able to open a bank account for the estate because you have no legal right to handle the estate assets. Hi Lynne.My mother passed away in September and my brother and I are co executors. They will continue to do this until a beneficiary sues them. It may seem inconvenient but there reasons for it, not the least of which is who is earning any interest on the account.Keep in mind that in law, that joint bank account belongs to your father, not to you, but that's a story for another post.Since I know nothing at all about your father, his marital situation, his assets, his debts, or anything else, I really couldn't say what you need to do. It's not what they're used to, I expect, but the law should not require you to get probate.Lynne. You don't need probate to operate an estate account.Lynne, I have been named as Liquidator of my ex-husband's estate. What's the easiest way to cash it. I have made sure his loan and funeral expenses have been paid for and any government cheques have been paid back. An alternative might be to purchase bank drafts rather than cheques. As trustee, I am unable to distribute or transfer the funds of the Estate. (In case my brother contested the Will, I would still get the money). Hope this helps others who deal with RBC regarding non probated wills. Make sure you have provided everything they asked for. Your bank is doing what any bank would do in the circumstances. You can expect to lose about 30 - 40% of it in taxes.Shouldn't you have figured all of this out BEFORE you complained for months?Lynne. I am her executor and sole beneficiary. After the death benefit from CPP was deposited, I as the executor, got them to make a money order for each of the 4 children (self included) to divide estate funds up and closed the joint account. Financial institution (Questrade) refuses to do so and claims this is against the law (True?). My father passed away. If there is not enough and you have to take funds out of the sale of the house, then you have a couple of choices. was all joint or myself as designated beneficiary. He has a spouse. I don't have the big picture! While this may be slightly off topic, you advised people with a question to move to a blog with less than 200 questions. If you don't have to go through probate, then by all means, don't. Thanks in advance for your input. We have heard from others that other banks did not pull this. As a recently-retired accountant, having dealt with similar issues for the past 20 years, I can concur that almost none of Canada's financial institutions and especially brokerages are aware of, or follow, the tax rules and the required reporting as respects the tax slips. All decisions of joint executors must be made unanimously, so all three will have to sign all cheques.Lynne. Executor & Estate Bank Accounts. I am the person who paid for the funeral and I already applied for the CPP death benefit. I have dealt with two CIBC staff and have been promised a CIBC Manager but no Manager has yet contacted me.Is CIBC correct in making asserting they are making lawful requests identification of beneficiaries and for requiring each and every beneficiary to appear at a CIBC branch, identify themselves and completing account application forms? Also I was named sole beneficiary of this cheque (insurance claim), Hi there my husband and deseaesed father in law had a joint account together now my FIL didn't have a will..can he still deposited life insurance cheques into the personal account (only child) or will he still have yo open up a estate account ?will our lawyer still have yo go to court to make him executar of estate? I think your bank is making an error. The category names can change to accommodate the estate activity. Nobody cares whether the legal department people can read them. I went to deposit them and was told by CIBC that they drained the account and closed it 5 months after death? Without more facts, I don't know for sure that this is what they are getting at, but there should be no bank policy to say an executor must wait 6 months. Sometimes the bank will know about these, but sometimes you have to review old statements to figure it out. Do I actually need any sort of approval? Safe Deposit Boxes You will need the key to any safe deposit box so you can list the contents and access any important documents it may contain. Can the Courts force her to replace the lost bank draft? It sounds as though one will be open longer because of your tax holdback. I would much rather deal with my Bank. There isn't an estate department in the branches, but there is one in Toronto.If you have Letters of Administration, you now have the right to collect the deceased's assets. Yes, you should should go to the bank to set up an estate account, and no you shouldn't need probate to do that. The primary focus of the Account Specialist, Real Estate is to prepare credit applications, actively participate in credit structuring, risk management and client facing support. They did have one joint account. The process would require you to sign an indemnity form. When you stepped down, I assume that you did so with the permission of the court, as that is the only legal way a person acting as executor can step down. You may be named in a will as someone's estate representative. So out of her account I paid for her last medications so it is a fully paid now. Hello Lynn,I'm setting up an estate account for my mother. The TD bank allowed my brother to even close accounts, and cash in GICs and made all assets payable to him. Is there anyway around this? An executor can never use estate funds for personal spending. 8. Is it really the case that I can't get this information if the PEOPLE aren't available? They gave me a cheque for that amount made out to the estate of my dad. Everything else of my husbands, all accounts, homes,, RRSP's etc. In law, you have no right to do so because you've been given the cheque as executor, which means it's in trust for the beneficiaries of the estate. The only thing going to probate is her house which was only in her name. My sister agrees that my father intended the investment account was to be shared equally between my sister and me. Your estate includes what you own (assets) and what you owe (liabilities). His RRSP beneficiary form completed in 2011 lists my sister and me as his beneficiaries (oversight). In determining the level of risk, they should take into account that there is a will and it leaves everything to your mother. TD bank says it can take "two, three sometimes even six months" to set up an Estate Account for me. For example, are any beneficiaries pushing for an immediate distribution? No probate is required. Estate planning, wills and dealing with death Making a will, planning your estate, powers of attorney and what to do following a death. Yes, all executors' names must be on it. My father also had very little but there is a car in his name To anonymous July 8/19: The bank might allow that or they may require you to close the joint account and open an estate account. On July 21, I escalated my complaint to that bank's ombudsman. Your blog is very informativeThank you. Probate was approved in August and our attorney asked the bank to surrender all funds to their office in my name. If you want to discuss the case with me, call my office at 79-221-5511 and make an appointment for a telephone conference at your convenience. Asked by: Ozella Braun | Last update: February 9, 2022. I have set aside more than enough to cover that expense. I know this is an old topic, but I have a question. I'm not an expert on criminal law but it seems to me that if she is pretending your grandmother is alive and depositing a cheque made to your grandmother, that is fraud. Are you sure you are clear on what the bank wants you to do?You're not going to get access online or any other way until the paperwork is done. the cheque was made payable to the estate. Can Laurentienne refuse to transfer the funds from my decesased uncle's account to BMO? I know you want it to just be easy but there are procedures built into our system to protect people. I advised my husband to find another bank, because after I talked to the TD Manager, wanting to understand what they told him, the branch manager talked over me too. You don't have to wait until the will is probated. Had she appointed someone honest, this wouldn't have happened, but I'm sure she had no reason not to trust him. My mother maintains the joints account she had with my grandmother who passed away 4 years ago. They refuse to transfer the assets in those account over to the estate account until they receive the probated will. They told me to open an estate account.he doesn't have any assets nor investment, is it necessary to open an estate account? Lynne. Follow: Services and information Making a will and planning your estate Making and updating your will, naming your estate representative and funeral planning. For example, some estate accounts are restricted in a way that allows deposits but no withdrawals can be made without a court order. I was hoping to close it out so there will be final closure to his estate ( there is not much to it ). If it's not going to the named beneficiaries, then it has to go to the estate and be taxed. Other things might also flow through that estate account, such as the CPP death benefit. I have received the probate, and can access to the Estate bank account, and wonder if I could just go to the bank and withdraw money for my reimbursement? He had power of attorney. In some states and in some estate situations, estate accounts are restricted. I don't know who works at the legal departments for banks, but they seem to know absolutely squat about estate paperwork. This is what the law says you are supposed to do. On the Statement of Death I was named as next of kin as I was always the one with Mom taking care of her affairs. I am not happy with RBC at all. Every time I get another unsatisfactory response causes more stress at an already difficult time. I don't need the money but want this to be resolved. For example there could be some doubt about the validity of the will or dispute among the beneficiaries about the will. Several expenses were incurred and paid from my own pocket while waiting for the probate to be granted. My father had a joint investment account with my sister with a right of survivorship which held shares and cash which the bank has put into her name to deal with as she sees fit. She isn't in the running here. That is not the law any longer, when we are talking about inter-generational accounts. My husband passed away recently, I am the sole beneficiary and executor of all accounts, TFSA, GIC's. Then all of a sudden none of the kids will get the joint accounts any more. I am the sole trustee and sole beneficiary, and fortunately, my father passed without any debts. Anyone can make a mistake but that's not a mistake; thinking they outrank the court is arrogance.As for not telling you about the problem they were having, yes, they should have told you. Lynne. It's a fairly small estate, about 80k in RIFF's, chequing account. Also, they finally said they will release all the funds via bank draft payable to the estate.? What sort of resistance am I likely to encounter from the bank when I try to close them? By this I mean a proper account set up, funds properly deposited, interest properly paid to the account, nobody else with access to it, and a full, accurate accounting of every penny. My dad had no will, no spouse and i am his only child. I will ask the bank. This is clearly a "screw you, this works for us" policy on behalf of the banks.Keeping detailed records makes sense. The other financial company with all the investments left, did not require probate and it was a significant sum. Nobody but a judge can decide whether a decision made by your mother close to her death is a valid decision or not.I'm absolutely horrified by this story. I'm frustrated just reading your note; I can just imagine how frustrated you must be. Do I just issue cheques from the estate account and the cancelled cheque is proof? Banks drive me nuts, for exactly the kind of thing you've just described.Lynne. We two are the only benficaiaries. All he did was tell the banks that she had terminal cancer,(one bank employee stated she was told, he was consolidating my mother's assets, she called their lawyer, who told them it was okay to give him the money) and they released the money, prior to her death. You don't have to wait for anything but the cheque to clear. Not at all a fan of RBC, in fact in the process of switching banks myself. I'm assuming all 3 should be signatories?Marsha, Hi Marsha,The account you need is just a regular chequing account. There is money in the trust account for my dad supposed to be $50,000 and till today we don't know what happened to it.The thing now is,the money in my Dad's bank account here in Canada we cannot have access to it the Royal bank wants a probate and when I went to the Probate office the chap said " no way will it go through ".So what, does the banks in Canada have the rights to our parents money ?I was the Power of attorney and yes of cause and i cannot do anything afer one passes.Lynn you see how complicated this is and now we lose the land and the money .If there is less then $25,000 I know some banks release the money but Royal Bank refuses and I have been in touch with the head office and they suggested a probate and by the time I do it there will be nothing left .Please can you help me ?Thanks, Roberta, Roberta, yes I can help you, but not on a blog post. RBC has made a royal mess for me to contend with. How an estate is distributed Do I still need an estate bank account?Thank you,Tammy, I doubt you would need one, simply because there won't be anything to put in there, or anything needing to be paid out of there. There were no investments just bank accounts in both our names, (my father and mine)so the money could pass seamlessly in the event of his passing. My question is:What is the best method of paying and having proof that the payment was given to beneficiary? My mom passed in June, after living in long term care for just over a year. at which point the funds will go to Estate. The two of us are the only beneficiaries. It is absolutely unworkable for executors.What we do for our clients here is calculate the probate fee and prepare a document that we call an estimate but looks much like an invoice for that amount. If the judge is not fully satisfied with it, you may be directed to prove the will more formally.Lynne, Lynne,I hope you can help. I have set up an estate account. The final distribution (to myself) was confirmed last year by my lawyer, and I have since acquired some of the major assets left to me. I think that's all they've been used for to date. Hi Boobes,Trying to understand your question. Two witnesses, however, signed the will as witnesses and swear that the maker of the will (now deceased) made the will, and somehow no one noticed that the maker did not sign it. We need to access funds to pay final funeral expenses, property tax, and more importantly estate taxes so we can begin probate.How we do access the funds? Lynne. It's 2500.00. Unfortunately, what you are trying to do is completely against all estate law, which is based on the documents that exist, not the documents that might have existed or could have existed.Your father left the RRSP beneficiary form with named beneficiaries. Why on earth doesn't she just do the paperwork before this all hits the fan? . Utter incompetence on their part considering they should have informed me of this long ago. If that gets around, that bank is going to see every cent owned by a deceased person put into estate accounts in other banks that are more reasonable.Lynne. I have been calling the bank, and getting no answer. He died in Quebec, and the Public Curator there has handled all the paperwork. I am also sole executor of the will. I opened an estate bank account in BC where I live. The only reason that some banks are still paying out joint accounts to the kids is that nobody has sued the banks yet. In particular, the bit about being listed as executor per CRA. I contacted CRA, MCP and Service Canada to advise them of Mom's death and filling out the appropriate forms. Having been executrix of my husbands assets 30+ years ago, I should have known better; he had accounts at both CIBC and a smaller one at RBC. Empire Life is right, in my opinion. Their job is to hand over the account once probate has been granted. Perhaps you think it's ridiculous, but banks and most other people think it's a good idea not to let a deceased person's family treat the bank account as his or her own. Months? The probate has just been completed.The estate is entirely investments with no actual cash other than a monthly dividend cash flow. Hello Lynn,Is an executor allowed to pay expenses out of the estate account prior to probate being granted? So you couldn't have used that account to avoid probate. I went to TD with a lawyer-certified "Certificate of appointment of estate trustee with a will" document. Or do you actually mean mirror wills? The mortgage has been paid from my father in laws account since he has passed in October. Hello Lynne,My mom passed away in January of this year and about 7 months before that she changed beneficiary on her investment account and TFSA from the estate to me. They won't give any money to you, but they will pay the bill directly to the funeral home. My question is how to put this money back into the estate without raising the concerns of the Ministry of Finance. It's a downfall in our system, but that is the system we have.Let's hope your brother is standing right in the middle of the road when the karma bus comes barreling along.Lynne. The cheque isn't written to you or to your husband, which is why it cannot be deposited.
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